弟子 - Deshi

From: http://www.saiga-jp.com/ [http://www.saiga-jp.com/cgi-bin/dic.cgi?m=search&sc=0&f=0&j=&g=&e=&s=&rt=0&start=1&sid=1256767060_65568]

門弟 - a pupil, a disciple
師弟 - master and pupil, teacher and student
子 - a child, a kid, a son, a daughter
子分 - a follower, a henchman, a following

google translate:

弟子 - disciple (noun: disciple, pupil, apprentice, follower, adherent, young person, teacher's student-helper)

In one view a deshi is a "disciple" and it is believed in this system that a Sensei has many students or "seito" while only a very few "deshi." It is expected that the deshi train harder than a seito and therefore receives more attention and pressure from Sensei to excel at the system.

To my view the use of the term is first and foremost a personal decision by the dojo Sensei. I find that most use it in a traditional setting yet that begs the questions as to whether the Sensei has gone to the extra effort to find out what a traditional dojo is, was, or might be from the source, i.e. for most karate that would be Okinawa, and actually trained and practiced well enough to be accurate for accuracy is critical if one wants to promote the customs, courtesies, and intent of the Okinawan Karate pioneers.

I try to encompass the traditions of the Okinawan dojo as I understand it yet also accept that it is flawed where new information is sought daily to ensure that I am increasing my knowledge, understanding, and accuracy in my practice. Most provide enough effort for lip-service and sales.

学生 - student (gaku-sei).

Teacher and Student - Kyoshi-to-seito - 教師と生徒
Master and Pupil - Shitei - 師弟

Here again it comes down to who is using the characters, the environment/intent, and the placement, i.e. arrangement of the various characters. As can be readily seen in my examples, making the assumption that the two sources of translation are fairly accurate, when coupled they mean one thing and when separated mean something sometimes and sometimes not related.

For me, even in a traditional way, a student is a student - a practitioner is a practitioner - a disciple is a disciple - a teacher is a teacher and all regardless of what you use as to characters or reference when in the training hall. I tend to try and not relate to any term that might misdirect a perspective practitioner to misunderstand or misdirect their efforts toward the more understood, at the beginning, relation to a grade/high/college school type teaching environment vs. a more eclectic training and practice environment.